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mazda62018Red mazda62018Red is offline
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Default issues after install - 05-24-2022, 09:25 AM

After install, firmware upgrade and setting to map 2, I have very poor performance (car is jumping, no power at half or full throttle), check engine light and errors on front collision and braking system. I double checked all connections are secure, or so I thought. scanning for error codes, none. Traction control is also off, cant be toggled back on. - The MAP sensor at the intercooler was not fully clicked in and the car is now a beast! I hope this helps.

What about other maps? Are we still at map 2? I saw something about a map with 5 PSI and 25 fuel, is that map 5 on the current firmware? I have the laptop / USB connection.

Last edited by mazda62018Red; 05-24-2022 at 10:06 AM..
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Turki Turki is offline
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Default 05-24-2022, 06:36 PM

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Originally Posted by danbfree
You won't damage anything, but you're relying on the ECU to cut boost and timing when getting so many large corrections. SW/Cali 91 has been shown to be pretty bad in my experience tuning over my last few cars. I would travel from Oregon down to Cali and even using 91 tunes would get corrections on 91 gas that I didn't see at all using northwest 92 on *93 tunes*. I'm not sure if you have checked to see if e85 is available or not in your area, but 22 is really pretty bad, and even 9 for map 1 is kind of surprising, but does make sense based on what I was just mentioning, that 91 sucks unfortunately. With my Mazda now I only hit in the 5's, max, for Ign_2 running Map 2 meant for 93 with our NW 92. You should notice the "Target" (added) psi drop very quickly when getting a few negative corrections in a row, unfortunately that kind of negates the JB4 usefulness. If all you have is 91, period, do not push it and stick to Map 1, which is already borderline with how poor quality the 91 fuel is unfortunately. I hate to say this, but a JB4 is almost pointless unless you have at least high quality 92 to 93+, so if you can, try to find e85. It's subsidized and pretty cheap compared to gas in Cali, you could even just add 3 gallons per full tank and likely get very little corrections, if any, on map 2. Yes, the actual alcohol percentage can vary based on time of year, but at the 3 gallon quantity it is enough to help but also not run too lean.
Actually, i only have acess to VP racing c85, and its VERY expensive here, its basically 19usd a gallon, i might try it sometime later just to confirm that its a fuel quality issue, i did some testing on the fuel we got, and i dont think its even 91, i refueled once from a ****ty gas station and floored the car to test it and i heared an audible knock followed by a partial throttle cutoff and a bunch of black smoke came out the exhaust (obvious signs of excessive knock), i drove slowly until the tank was empty and then refueled from a good gas station that i know and the problem was gone, but still can't use even map1 with 91, i'll have to try the vp's c85, and then i might sell the jb4 because, well, i have no good fuel available
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Uncanny M Uncanny M is offline
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Default 05-25-2022, 07:02 AM

Strange, I don't think I've ever had those issues running Map 1 with 91 octane. Did you happen to notice what values you were getting on Ign 2 (at full-throttle) when you experienced the knock?

I've run Map 2 on 91 octane, and for the most part Ign 2 was flat then -- though I am at high altitude which might explain that a little. My power will be reduced due to the thin air, so maybe my engine just can't get enough air to push itself to the point of knock as easily.
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Turki Turki is offline
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Default 05-25-2022, 02:19 PM

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Originally Posted by Uncanny M
Strange, I don't think I've ever had those issues running Map 1 with 91 octane. Did you happen to notice what values you were getting on Ign 2 (at full-throttle) when you experienced the knock?

I've run Map 2 on 91 octane, and for the most part Ign 2 was flat then -- though I am at high altitude which might explain that a little. My power will be reduced due to the thin air, so maybe my engine just can't get enough air to push itself to the point of knock as easily.
I am 2000 feet above sea level, I only get the bad audible knock in map2 so thats why i am not using it anymore unless i have e85, i noticed some things when it happens, first ign2 spikes immedietly to about 20 or more, and throttle cuts off partially or fully even when gas pedal is fully pressed, and ign1 drops immedietly to about 0, boost also drops so much, it all seem like a safety thing that the car does when the ecu senses excessive knock.

For map1 i can sometimes feel the sudden power drop but i cant hear the knock, i checked the graphs and found about the same things maybe just a little less aggressive, ign2 reaches 18 and throttle cuts off.etc...
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Uncanny M Uncanny M is offline
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Default 05-25-2022, 06:40 PM

Yeesh, well that's unfortunate. I'm in Colorado at roughly 5,500 feet above sea level, so even thinner air - maybe it's actually helping me avoid some if these issues (instead of just robbing me of power ��)
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Turki Turki is offline
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Default 05-25-2022, 06:52 PM

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Originally Posted by Uncanny M
Yeesh, well that's unfortunate. I'm in Colorado at roughly 5,500 feet above sea level, so even thinner air - maybe it's actually helping me avoid some if these issues (instead of just robbing me of power ��)
Im travelling to a place next month, its at 8000 feet, i'll see if things will change in there.
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danbfree danbfree is offline
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Default 05-25-2022, 08:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Note on v4 firmware user adjustable fuel bias is disabled unless enabled via option bit0. In most cases we don't suggest playing with it unless you know how to review logs, etc.
Enabling Bit 0 on the Mazda 3 resulted in exactly a reading of "4.5" for *every* data line for Ign_2, I had to switch it back off.

It does look like running ~e25 I can push up to 6 psi of added boost on Map 6 and Ign_2 stays at 0 and AFR's stay nicely in the ~10.8 range under WOT.

For those who know what they are doing as far as adding ethanol and calculating your percentage (know what your Flex Fuel /"e85" actual percentage is/have at least a beaker tester and use an online ethanol percentage calculator) and can run e25-e30, I suggest the following Map 6 boost curve settings. Try to stay at e30 MAX to keep from running lean, I like to stay at ~e25. Due to load and other torque targeting done by the ECU based on variables like ambient temp, humidity and more, the peak psi can vary but I'm hitting about 22 psi peak with these settings:

1500 - 2
2000 - 3
2500 - 4
3000 - 5
3500 - 6
4000 - 6
4500 - 6
5000 - 5
5500 - 4
6000 - 4
6500 - 3
7000 - 3

Since the power drops off a cliff at 5500 RPM with the tiny turbo anyway, I recommend, even in AT mode, to manually up-shift around 5300-5400 so really the settings past 5500 are moot anyway.

Also, the throttle is so touchy on my Mazda 3 running an ethanol blend that I actually enabled that Bit 7 for Linear throttle, it helps from being too touchy and you can just lay into the throttle more if you want to, it's worth trying if the throttle response is too touchy for you once you add ethanol.

It's also important to note that besides AFR's staying properly rich under WOT that I only pushed this high and stayed with these settings as my IAT's and other temps stayed right in line. Not sure if it's the air to water intercooler the 3 Turbo has or what, but a sign you are pushing too high of boost is a sharp rise in IAT's as the turbo gets pushed out of its efficiency
range and I'm just not seeing that. This thing actually has excellent cooling in stock form, so it it can handle being pushed with the right fuel!


Mazda 3/CX-30 BETA tester BMS267264 - '22 Platinum Quartz Metallic M3TH - Performance mods: 235/40/18 on 18x8 wheels, JB4, CorkSport Intake w/heatshield.
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Uncanny M Uncanny M is offline
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Default 05-25-2022, 08:53 PM

^ This is the kind of detail I've been looking for!
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Default 05-25-2022, 09:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncanny M
^ This is the kind of detail I've been looking for!
Glad to help! I think with the CX-30 you have to enable Bit 0 anyway, but just want to make sure you know the 2 cars have bit different sensor setup, which you probably already knew... But yeah, same exact engine itself of course, I hope this helps you out, I still have some more experimenting/settings to try but I hope to help push the more advanced usage case in this thread, the JB4 is a very cool device once you get deeper into it and since it's technically beta, hope I can help develop the product further.

(adding my official Beta testing number to my signature in case this helps Terry/BMS in any way.)


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Default 05-25-2022, 09:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turki
I am 2000 feet above sea level, I only get the bad audible knock in map2 so thats why i am not using it anymore unless i have e85, i noticed some things when it happens, first ign2 spikes immedietly to about 20 or more, and throttle cuts off partially or fully even when gas pedal is fully pressed, and ign1 drops immedietly to about 0, boost also drops so much, it all seem like a safety thing that the car does when the ecu senses excessive knock.

For map1 i can sometimes feel the sudden power drop but i cant hear the knock, i checked the graphs and found about the same things maybe just a little less aggressive, ign2 reaches 18 and throttle cuts off.etc...
Yep, all normal ECU safety reactions, when you see low numbers for Ign_2 it's not "full" knock, just small pre-ignitions the ECU picks up and it's good for those who don't know that modern ECU's are quite powerful and will save your engine from really poor fuel and/or too aggressive of settings. It's pretty damn hard to hurt your engine this way unless you use a tune or JB4 settings that bypasses the stock ECU safety settings, which you should never do anyway. From what you have shared, it sounds like a "full" knock happens at Ign_2 value of 20, so thanks for the detail to learn from.

That said, man, so sorry to hear that fuel is so poor in your area and e85/race gas cost so much! I thought it was bad that high quality "e88" here is $5.209/gallon, but I now will appreciate the decent fuel I can get!


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Slojedi Slojedi is offline
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Default 05-26-2022, 11:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by danbfree
Glad to help! I think with the CX-30 you have to enable Bit 0 anyway, but just want to make sure you know the 2 cars have bit different sensor setup, which you probably already knew... But yeah, same exact engine itself of course, I hope this helps you out, I still have some more experimenting/settings to try but I hope to help push the more advanced usage case in this thread, the JB4 is a very cool device once you get deeper into it and since it's technically beta, hope I can help develop the product further.

(adding my official Beta testing number to my signature in case this helps Terry/BMS in any way.)
Fuel Bias numbers ? 25? 20? Thanks.
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Default 05-26-2022, 02:03 PM

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Originally Posted by Slojedi
Fuel Bias numbers ? 25? 20? Thanks.
Per Terry in a recent post, apparently that setting is disabled, despite what he said previous to that when he recommended a setting of 25, and experimenting with a bit proved there was no difference between 5 and 25... honestly it doesn't seem to matter. Unlike other non-Beta platforms, AFR stays very healthy, a little too rich for my taste, with data points showing as rich as 9.6. What is becoming apparent as well is that the stock cooling and fueling, at least with the 3/Axela air to water intercooler system, is surprisingly robust. But to use the peak +6 boost curve I posted it's probably best to use 3 gallons per tank of full percentage e85 which means 3.5 gallons+ of the more typical 70% ethanol flex fuel that is out there to hit ~e28 final mix. I personally don't have to worry much as the only station around at all that has e85 is always full percentage year round, but for others they may need to use an ethanol test beaker to confirm their percentage and plug into an online ethanol percentage calculator to make sure they hit that ideal e26-29 final percentage, but I'm impressed the stock fuel system and ECU handles it like a champ, likely thanks to the JB4 keeping the AFR nice with added trims automatically.

Edit: Although I did go through all the pages of this thread earlier, I had missed the point that IAT reading by the JB4 is just the regular intake temp and actual IAT_2 is not being read, and that would be what the engine sees after the intercooler that goes into the engine. I just got good info from a guy on a FB group that the car "targets" 131 F for actual IAT and will cycle the air to water IC coolant and IC air shutters to help maintain this, and it does a good job of keeping that in check.


Mazda 3/CX-30 BETA tester BMS267264 - '22 Platinum Quartz Metallic M3TH - Performance mods: 235/40/18 on 18x8 wheels, JB4, CorkSport Intake w/heatshield.

Last edited by danbfree; 05-26-2022 at 02:59 PM.. Reason: Important info to add
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Slojedi Slojedi is offline
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Default 05-26-2022, 03:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by danbfree
Per Terry in a recent post, apparently that setting is disabled, despite what he said previous to that when he recommended a setting of 25, and experimenting with a bit proved there was no difference between 5 and 25... honestly it doesn't seem to matter. Unlike other non-Beta platforms, AFR stays very healthy, a little too rich for my taste, with data points showing as rich as 9.6. What is becoming apparent as well is that the stock cooling and fueling, at least with the 3/Axela air to water intercooler system, is surprisingly robust. But to use the peak +6 boost curve I posted it's probably best to use 3 gallons per tank of full percentage e85 which means 3.5 gallons+ of the more typical 70% ethanol flex fuel that is out there to hit ~e28 final mix. I personally don't have to worry much as the only station around at all that has e85 is always full percentage year round, but for others they may need to use an ethanol test beaker to confirm their percentage and plug into an online ethanol percentage calculator to make sure they hit that ideal e26-29 final percentage, but I'm impressed the stock fuel system and ECU handles it like a champ, likely thanks to the JB4 keeping the AFR nice with added trims automatically.

Edit: Although I did go through all the pages of this thread earlier, I had missed the point that IAT reading by the JB4 is just the regular intake temp and actual IAT_2 is not being read, and that would be what the engine sees after the intercooler that goes into the engine. I just got good info from a guy on a FB group that the car "targets" 131 F for actual IAT and will cycle the air to water IC coolant and IC air shutters to help maintain this, and it does a good job of keeping that in check.
I like it! Thanks for the info I copied yours exactly
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Slojedi Slojedi is offline
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Default 05-26-2022, 03:09 PM

Rest of pic wouldn’t fit in other reply.Power is great!
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Default 05-26-2022, 04:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slojedi
Rest of pic wouldnít fit in other reply.Power is great!
Looking good! Obviously you know what you're doing, but just to share knowledge with others, how did you do your fuel mix?


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Slojedi Slojedi is offline
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Default 05-26-2022, 05:58 PM

I Use Shell 93 Octane from same station, really good fuel .3 gallons of E-85. When I fuel up from unknown stations I also use 93 . I set the map to Map-1 and watch the Ignition 2 gauge ,if it shows bad signs I go to map 0 for that tank of fuel itís a great tool for us to monitor fuel grade.Iím very happy with the settings youíve put up and the car Rips! AFRís are much better to.
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Default 05-26-2022, 07:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slojedi
I Use Shell 93 Octane from same station, really good fuel .3 gallons of E-85. When I fuel up from unknown stations I also use 93 . I set the map to Map-1 and watch the Ignition 2 gauge ,if it shows bad signs I go to map 0 for that tank of fuel itís a great tool for us to monitor fuel grade.Iím very happy with the settings youíve put up and the car Rips! AFRís are much better to.
Good deal, always good to share knowledge two ways, so thanks... yeah, I live where the premium is labelled 92 minimum but is actually pretty much 93, unlike CA/NV/AZ where it's labelled 91 and more like 90, hehe... and that 92 all comes from the same one refinery, so I just literally avoid off-brand gas and have had good luck. So for those curious, depending on your area the e85 (now they want you to say "Flex Fuel" for a reason) can actually be as low as 51% in the winter, there is a whole chart the Gov't has in PDF if anyone is curious, but basically the colder and sooner your winters are, the more likely you will have as low as 51% sooner rather than later in the year too and maybe only the "max" 83% in the summer.

For others not as deep into this stuff as some of us and are in a 91 premium area, just keep in mind you can add 2-3 gallons of e85 (per full tank, so like 3 gallons the first time and 2 gallons if refilling with 1/3rd tank left, etc) and run Map 2, you just have to run your card twice and maaaybe lose about 10% MPG at most as the only downsides, but Flex Fuel is often 40% less than gas in price as well in those 91 areas.


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Default 05-26-2022, 07:49 PM

From a guy on FB with access to a $20k analyzer, here we can see ambient is around 87 F, intake temp climbing from 89-111 F but check out IAT 2, it's deliberately held into the 120's intentionally, even near engine startup they work to give it the warm air they have decided is best. Forgive my middle of the road technical terms here that may seem complex to some and maybe over simplistic to others, I believe it's the way they do the 4-2-1 exhaust, variable geometry and simulated twin scroll stuff for efficiency and spool up both that they are trying for a consistent temp of air coming into the engine itself. Very interesting, Mazda is definitely running way more complex stuff than the more basic ways almost every other maker does, all part of the SkyActiv thing. Instead of all this stuff and a mix of MAF and MAP, most automakers just run a MAP system with torque targeting and you want to shoot for as low of IAT's as possible. I just can't help but wonder why they have to run quite so rich of mixtures when the Germans are getting about 10% better fuel economy at roughly the same power/weight levels. Is it because of richer mixtures mean cooler temps and less engine failures and warranty claims? I know Hyundai/Kia used to do that but now get a good 15-20% better fuel economy today on the same engines they had started using 6-7 years ago (their 1.6T and 2.0T, for example).

Anyway, this is a JB4 thread, so to tie it in, these are all part of the extra challenges there are in tuning Mazda's, so I'm happy that BMS jumped on-board to offer this option for us and that the unit is powerful enough to deal with this complex Mazda stuff and still deliver some decent gains!



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